Archived thread started by Andrew:
With our characters having the point-buy system I decided to try and have a semi-decent Sorcerer who wouldn't be too "munchkiny". Of course with the choices made for race and magic items I now realise I'm heading towards the ultimate munchkin Sorcerer, with maximum Charisma and everything else at 10 (due to racial ability modifiers). I guess more thought should've gone into those choices for the upcoming sessions. Has anyone else created a character they thought was a munchkin purely by accident?
Archived comment by me:
ReplyDeleteI've never had a character who turned out more powerful than I'd intended. I've had quite a few who were nowhere near as powerful as I meant, but I guess so has everyone...
Anyway, I don't think any character who adopts a class with Charisma as a (or the) key attribute can ever be described as munchkin, as it's still the dump stat in the game.
(Incidentally, you forgot that you have a Con of 14, due to a 13 bought with points, and a further +1 from 4th level. That's slightly more munchkin.)
However, the ultimate munchkin combination is not one ultra-high stat and five 10's. Instead, for maximum munchkinism, you should have left your Str at 8 (it's pretty much useless for Sorcerers), and boosted your Dex to 12, to get a +1 AC, and a +1 with ranged attacks. And maybe drop Int to 8 as well, to spend the extra points on Wis (let's face it - dropping from 2 skill points/level to 1 per level isn't a big deal).
In fact, the combination I'd probably go with is: Str 8, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 16. You then apply the racial mods for 8/14/13/8/10/18, and add 1 to Con at 4th level for Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10 and Cha 18. The mods at 8th and 12th level can go anywhere, but the boost at level 16 has to go into Charisma, unless you can find a stat-boosting item in the meantime (since you need a 19 Cha to cast maximum-level spells).
At least, that's what I'd probably do. Of course, I don't think I'd play a Sorcerer under point-buy, so it's probably a moot point.
However, this does highlight a possible problem under the point-buy system. The munchkin strategy for character building under this system is to identify as many dump stats as possible. These are then set to the lowest value possible. The remaining points are then assigned to the other stats to get the best combination of bonuses as possible. So, for a Fighter, the dump stats are Charisma, probably Wisdom, with Intelligence as a third choice. If these are all set to 8, the character can easily have Str 18, Dex 13 and Con 12, or even better Str 17, Dex 14 and Con 14.
Some classes, however, have multiple attribute dependency, that is they require decent scores in several attribute. The classic example is the Monk, although the Paladin and the Cleric also require three good stats (two of which are 'mental'). In order to be effective in the class, therefore, the character has to sacrifice points to get scores in stats that are generally less useful than others. This inevitably leaves fewer points to spend on the 'important' attributes.
The solution is probably to have different costs for the different stats. Basically, Strength and the primary spellcasting stat (depending on class, this will be Int, Wis or Cha) would cost a high number of points per boost. The other physical attributes would cost somewhat less, while the two (or three) other mental stats would require the lowest number of points.
Or the character could have to prioritise the physical and the mental side, with the 'better' half getting 15 points to spend, and the 'lesser' half getting only 10. Or something of the sort. Frankly, it's about this point that I give in.
Generating ability scores is a long-standing problem of mine. I really, really detest the notion of dump stats, and I don't like the potential unfairness of random rolls (and, I'm coming around to the view that random rolls have no place in character management. Give me fixed hit points per level, fixed starting cash, and so on). I thought I'd found a solution with my character cards idea, but it suffered the problems of being too complex, leading to monstrously lopsided characters (I think everyone in the last group, or damn near it, had a 7 somewhere), and just made people work harder to get the low numbers to their chosen dump stats.
I've rambled for far too long, especially to make the point that 'I don't know how to improve things'. I'll stop now.
Archived comment by Mort:
ReplyDeleteYes, listen to Stephen, Stephen is wise in the way of the muchkin.
I mean, you took hold person as your third level spell, no self respecting muchkin would ever take a spell that couldn't FWAKOOM! his enemies.
Don't worry about it.
Archived comment by me:
ReplyDeleteA sorcerer of any even-numbered level after 2nd knows precisely one spell of his highest level (as opposed to a wizard, who has the opportunity to know at least two, and can learn more easily enough). This is extremely nasty, it turns out, since although spells of a new level can be quite nasty, they are also, usually, individually limited.
For instance, hold person is effective only against humanoids. So, it will work on orcs, goblins or minotaurs, but not giants, trolls, or even ogres. Fireball does a decent amount of damage, but is useless against demons. And so on.
Just something I noticed this week... ;-)
Archived comment by Andrew:
ReplyDeleteHold Person would only really be useful against minions of the big bad that we faced and my idea was to use it against these NPC's while the Fighters dealt with said bad more quickly. Magic Missile could then be split up to do minor damage to them when held?
Archived comment by Mort:
ReplyDeleteYeah, hold person is a very usefull spell when in a party. But it still doesn't go FWAKOOM!
Btw, why can't you deliver a coup de grace with a spell? That would be so cool.
'Ok I've cast three hold person on these guys there, now I cast a coup de grace fireball on them! Fortitude save suckers!'
...
Ok, I see the point now...