One interesting comment that Roger made some time ago was that someone had decided to switch from Cleric to Rogue in his game, and that this left us with no Cleric. Whereas previously, we had no Rogue. Naturally, this is a bad thing. However, it really shouldn't be.
According to Wizards of the Coast's own market research, the average group size is 4 players and a DM. So, the typical D&D party would be expected to consist of the classic Fighter, Wizard, Rogue, Cleric combination. Of course, you can replace the Fighter with a Paladin, Ranger or Barbarian, and the Wizard can be replaced with a Sorcerer.
Yet, if you try to replace either the Cleric or the Rogue, you find there is no other class that can fill that role. Remove the Cleric, and you automatically lose the bulk of the group's healing capacity (yes, Druids and Paladins can both heal, but these are poor substitutes). Remove the Rogue, and you lose a lot of the group's ability to find traps (other characters cannot find traps with a DC higher than 20). Also, the Rogue is the skills king of the game, having twice as many points as any other class. Granted, Sneak Attack isn't absolutely required, and nor are any of the other Rogue special abilities.
In my opinion, this is a fairly gaping weakness in the game system as written. I think the only suggestion I can offer is the addition of new base classes, that incorporate these key class powers, but change the surrounding elements.
So, for instance, there might be a Mystic class that can heal as well as a Cleric, and has limited access to arcane spells as well, but doesn't have the same martial abilities of the Cleric (the key thing is the healing - everything else is negotiable).
Actually, in the case of Rogues and detecting traps, I'd probably make "Traps Lore" a feat, allowing a character to detect traps of any DC. Naturally, Rogues get this for free at first level, while other characters would have to buy it. I have a suspicion that the skill points of the various classes are going to be changed in the revised edition. (I'm expecting classes with 2 currently will go to 4, classes with 4 will go to 6, and Rogues will stay the same. I'm also hoping that the lists of class skills will be expanded a lot to include some key skills that are on everyone's list - such as Swim. Still, we won't see until July.)
So, whaddya think?
Archived comment by Mort:
ReplyDeleteHaving groups without a Rogue or Cleric is definately a big disadvantage. However I still think a group should be able to get along without a Rogue, as not every single adventure has to contain tons of traps, of course this leaves it up to the GM to adjust the game to take into account the missing trap spotting/disabling ability of the party. A non-cleric group however is in a much worse situation. Either they will die horribly or they will end up spending all their gold buying up every single bottle of healing within a 50-mile radius. Not only does the Cleric have the much needed healing spells, he also gets some pretty decent buff spells which could shift the advantage in a closely matched combat.
A Mystic class sounds like an interesting idea, I think it could fit, as the cleric indeed does have decent martial abilities, which could be removed for some extra oomph in the magic powers department. Still the Cleric will probably be superior due to his ability to change any memorized spell to a healing spell on the fly.
Which makes me wonder why anyone would want to be evil when they are a Cleric, turning your spells into make wounds, oh great, those spells are soo useful... or maybe not.
The only useful touch attack for clerics is, by my reckoning, Harm. But that is not a x-wound spell so it can't be cast spontaneously.
Archived comment by me:
ReplyDeleteI've seen confimation this morning that Bards and Rangers are to get 6 skill points per level in the new books. Which means that a Bard can fill that gap in a group make-up. Now, if they only make the find traps thing a feat, that'll fix that. (The Rogue will remain a valid character type, but no longer essential.)
As for replacing the Cleric, the key thing that needs to be present in a healer class is precisely that ability to spontaneously swap spells for healing. Without it, the character, if he's the primary healer of the group, will have no choice but to spend all his memorised slots on Healing spells. Which would suck.
I agree with your assessment of evil Clerics. By the way, Harm is apparently to get a saving throw in the new books, and will do a maximum of 150 hit points of damage.
Archived comment by Mort:
ReplyDeleteHmm, saving throw and max 150 damage, now that sounds oddly familiar...
Wasn't that the way it worked in 2ed?