A random thought: would there really be any great harm in allowing sorcerers to choose spells from the Cleric spell-list, in addition to the Wizard one? With the caveat that a spell on both lists uses the Wizard spell level, of course.
As I see it, sorcerers get such a crappy number of spells as it is, adding to this list isn't really a great boon. (Oh, there is one benefit to it, I guess - they would then be able to use Cleric scrolls and wands - is that a problem?)
Thoughts?
Sunday, 30 May 2004
Prestige Classes in Use
On Saturday, I commented about the new campaign world I'm working on, with a view to running a game there in a while (Tollis hasn't worked out quite as I'd expected, probably due to lack of proper preparation on my part). Amongst the things I said was a return to one of my old, familiar themes - "no prestige classes".
Before you roll your eyes, think "oh no, not again", and tune out, this isn't just another rant about how prestige classes suck, why they're a blight on the game, and why no-one should ever, ever touch them. Instead, here are my thoughts on how the game went using prestige classes, and the reason why I wouldn't allow them again.
1) Although only one character so far has actually entered a prestige class, they've had a significant impact on the game. Many characters have been built aiming towards a particular class, and there has been an assumption that other characters should inevitably aim towards a prestige class at some point.
Now, the first of these I don't mind much. There's a danger that characters will be built that way because the player wants to play "A Cavalier", rather than "Marcus Antonius Marius, second son of Marcus Antonius Anius, a noble of the empire, dedicated to the protection of his twin, the paladin, and member of the Order of the Sickle". Still, that danger exists in any class-based game, and most non-class based games as well, so it's not a problem inherent to prestige classes.
The second assumption is a bad thing. Taking a prestige class or not doing so should be a choice, and should not be a choice where one option screws your character. This is, on one level, a balance thing, where it's important that prestige classes not be more powerful than base classes. On another, it's a problem where players get bored with "one more level of Fighter". I don't really know what to do about that.
2) Prestige classes are murder on my back. Not really, of course, but many weeks I've been asked if I have "book X" with me, because a given player wants to use a particular prestige class from it. My RPG books are spread across every available space back home. My d20 books take up several shelves. I cannot physically carry them all, or frankly very many, so unless I'm asked to bring a specific book with me, I won't have it.
And that's the reason that there won't be prestige classes in any future campaigns I run. Unless I'm hosting the game, which seems an unlikely possibility at this time.
3) Prestige Classes do close one of the holes in the system, specifically the multiclass spellcaster bit. At first glance, the Mystic Theurge seems massively overpowered, but in actual play it's about right. It's just really dull. And, it is a valid fix for that part of the system - it's just a crappy fix. Alas, that problem only seems to have crappy fixes.
4) Too many prestige classes are dull. I like most of the Star Wars prestige classes, as they're built specifically for the setting. I like the elven Bladesinger class, since it means something (although it's far from perfect), and I like most of the classes in Oriental Adventures. I pretty much hate all of the prestige classes in Sword & Fist, Tome & Blood, and all the rest. Too many of them are too generic (by design).
Fixing this, of course, is a matter of changing the background of the classes to fit the current setting well. But that's too much work for me - especially if I'm concerned with having a reasonable number of classes, and a reasonable number for each base class to aspire to.
5) There are some fantastic prestige classes. Dragon generally publishes a couple a month, and often they're quite tasty. This is, of course, because Dragon can afford to be a bit adventurous with their classes, in a way that the class books can't afford to be - if one month's classes suck, it's really no big deal. If the classes in "Complete Warrior" suck, Wizards is in the shit.
Conclusion
Look for prestige classes if I ever run another Star Wars d20 game, or Forgotten Realms, or Oriental Adventures. But they won't be appearing in my homebrew worlds for the foreseeable future.
Before you roll your eyes, think "oh no, not again", and tune out, this isn't just another rant about how prestige classes suck, why they're a blight on the game, and why no-one should ever, ever touch them. Instead, here are my thoughts on how the game went using prestige classes, and the reason why I wouldn't allow them again.
1) Although only one character so far has actually entered a prestige class, they've had a significant impact on the game. Many characters have been built aiming towards a particular class, and there has been an assumption that other characters should inevitably aim towards a prestige class at some point.
Now, the first of these I don't mind much. There's a danger that characters will be built that way because the player wants to play "A Cavalier", rather than "Marcus Antonius Marius, second son of Marcus Antonius Anius, a noble of the empire, dedicated to the protection of his twin, the paladin, and member of the Order of the Sickle". Still, that danger exists in any class-based game, and most non-class based games as well, so it's not a problem inherent to prestige classes.
The second assumption is a bad thing. Taking a prestige class or not doing so should be a choice, and should not be a choice where one option screws your character. This is, on one level, a balance thing, where it's important that prestige classes not be more powerful than base classes. On another, it's a problem where players get bored with "one more level of Fighter". I don't really know what to do about that.
2) Prestige classes are murder on my back. Not really, of course, but many weeks I've been asked if I have "book X" with me, because a given player wants to use a particular prestige class from it. My RPG books are spread across every available space back home. My d20 books take up several shelves. I cannot physically carry them all, or frankly very many, so unless I'm asked to bring a specific book with me, I won't have it.
And that's the reason that there won't be prestige classes in any future campaigns I run. Unless I'm hosting the game, which seems an unlikely possibility at this time.
3) Prestige Classes do close one of the holes in the system, specifically the multiclass spellcaster bit. At first glance, the Mystic Theurge seems massively overpowered, but in actual play it's about right. It's just really dull. And, it is a valid fix for that part of the system - it's just a crappy fix. Alas, that problem only seems to have crappy fixes.
4) Too many prestige classes are dull. I like most of the Star Wars prestige classes, as they're built specifically for the setting. I like the elven Bladesinger class, since it means something (although it's far from perfect), and I like most of the classes in Oriental Adventures. I pretty much hate all of the prestige classes in Sword & Fist, Tome & Blood, and all the rest. Too many of them are too generic (by design).
Fixing this, of course, is a matter of changing the background of the classes to fit the current setting well. But that's too much work for me - especially if I'm concerned with having a reasonable number of classes, and a reasonable number for each base class to aspire to.
5) There are some fantastic prestige classes. Dragon generally publishes a couple a month, and often they're quite tasty. This is, of course, because Dragon can afford to be a bit adventurous with their classes, in a way that the class books can't afford to be - if one month's classes suck, it's really no big deal. If the classes in "Complete Warrior" suck, Wizards is in the shit.
Conclusion
Look for prestige classes if I ever run another Star Wars d20 game, or Forgotten Realms, or Oriental Adventures. But they won't be appearing in my homebrew worlds for the foreseeable future.
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